Steve Conover: Thank you for joining us for the Friends of Israel Today. I'm Steve Conover. With me is Chris Katulka. He's our host and teacher. Chris, today is our Israel My Glory In Depth episode.

Chris Katulka: That's right. This is where we look at our most recent issue of Israel My Glory. And it just so happens to be that that is all about holy matrimony. That's right, marriage. We're talking about God's precious gift of marriage. And joining us today on the program will be Steve Herzig. He has a wonderful article that he's going to be talking about. Steve grew up in an Orthodox Jewish home before he became a believer in Jesus, and he's going to share with us all about the traditions of a Jewish marriage, all from his article called Under the Chuppah. And so you're going to want to stick around to hear from Steve on how marriage really influences the scriptures from a Jewish perspective.

Steve Conover: We look forward to that. But first in the news, The Times of Israel reports that the Iranian president vowed that Tehran will never give up on its missile program as it needs it for deterrence for security against who they call “arch foe Israel,” who was able to “drop missiles on Gaza every day.” The Islamic Republic has for years defied Western calls to limit its missile program.

Chris Katulka: Well, Steve, here's my take. This is a perfect definition of chutzpah. Iran has some serious chutzpah to talk about a need for deterrence. For decades, they have funded Hamas and Hezbollah, terrorist organizations bent on destroying the state of Israel. And let's not forget about Iran's direct missile and drone attack last April. See, Iran isn't the victim here as they're trying to paint themselves. Actually, they're the bully. 

Chris Katulka: Hi everybody, I'm Chris Katulka, host of the Friends of Israel Today radio program and we're going to be interviewing our special guest today, Steve Herzig, who is the Vice President of North American Ministries. He wrote an article in our most recent issue of Israel My Glory, which is called Under the Chuppah. And it's all about marriage. That's what this Israel my glory issue is all about. It's a holy matrimony, God's precious gift to marriage. Steve, great to see you.

Steve Herzig: Great to be here, Chris.

Chris Katulka: Alright, so we're talking about weddings specifically for this article that you wrote, a Jewish wedding. So can you start by telling us why marriage is actually considered such an important milestone in Jewish tradition according to not only what the Torah says, the Bible, but also the Jewish sages?

Steve Herzig: Well, let's start with the Torah. What the Bible says, it says, “a man shall leave his father and mother and cling to his wife and they will be one flesh.” It's not good for a man to be alone. And so with that biblical instruction, the rabbis got to work. And Chris, they go a little bit further. They say, for instance, without a wife, there's no joy, there is no happiness and no bliss. Will you testify to that?

Chris Katulka: I will testify to that. 

Steve Herzig: I will too. I'll second it and third it.

Chris Katulka: This is actually interesting when we talk about the bigger picture of marriage too, not just within the Jewish context. In our culture today, marriage is almost looked down upon. In fact, when I scroll through social media, like on Twitter or X, I see a celebration even of, “Hey look, I'm 40, I'm single and I'm loving life.” And it's funny to read the comments because the comments say you don't realize it, but it's actually very lonely. You were just speaking about this thing. It brings bliss, it brings happiness. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because really the idea of marriage, the kind of marriage that we embrace is grounded in the scriptures. Why is that so important? Especially when we think about how culture is telling us to think about marriage.

Steve Herzig: Chris, I don't think it's complicated that the text says it's not good for man to be alone. And you just alluded to a guy writing on social media, “I'm 40 and I'm not married and it's great.”

Chris Katulka: “I got no kids.” 

Steve Herzig: “I got no kids.” Great, except you'll be lonely. There's a lot of loneliness out there. And so marriage is God's solution to the problem of Adam when he was alone. He wasn't alone. There were animals, all kinds of animals. He named all the animals. But he looked around and God said, it's not good that he's alone and he wanted to make a helper. And so Chris, marriage, it is seemingly on the downtrend, but have you ever wondered, even in Hollywood, they get married multiple times. You would think of all things that in Hollywood they would say, “eh, who cares about marriage?” But for some reason, no matter how many divorces individuals get, it all comes back to we're engaged and we're getting married. It seems to them even that marriage somehow is at a different level than just having relationships.

Chris Katulka: And it's even more the idea that what God's showing us, especially from the picture of the garden, because we are just talking about the Jewish sages, we were talking about what the Bible says, even from what the Bible teaches, like you were saying, Adam was not meant to be alone. And it wasn't just, Hey, let's create another person. It was let's create an intimate relationship, which is a picture of who God is. When God shares with us who he is and shows us who he is, the marriage is a picture of his desire to be relational. He's a relational God. And the marriage is a picture of that relationship as well.

Steve Herzig: Well, the church is the bride of Christ, and we do talk about relationships all the time. And Chris, God took a rib from Adam and made the woman and we complement one another, the man and the woman, they finish what God started. It's just an amazing symmetry that goes on. I think it's really hard to explain. You and I are both married. Our wives are an integral part of who we are, not just because we have children with them, but because of that relationship. And I think you could tie the same thing as the bride of Christ. He is our groom and we yearn for him.

Chris Katulka: In thinking about this concept too, of us, I was reading in a commentary that talked about why did God take the rib from Adam in order to make Eve, why that part of the body? And he said he could have taken from up here in the head and it would almost seemed like he was lording over the wife or he could have taken from the foot almost like he's stepping on the wife. This submission, extreme submission picture. But really God took from the side to show the equality. We have different roles, but in God's eyes, men and women are equal and we stand side by side. And when they are together, they become one. There's a unity there. We have different roles in how God's going to fulfill, what he'll do with men and what he'll do with women. The distinction there. But when they come together in an intimate way from the Torah, we see there's a, God has a value for both. They stand side by side. They're connected side by side.

Steve Herzig: That's an important distinction to make, Chris.

Chris Katulka: Yeah. So, betrothal and pre-wedding rituals in the Jewish concept. Steve, your article mentions a year-long betrothal period in a traditional Jewish wedding. What was the significance of this period and how did it change in modern practices that we see today?

Steve Herzig: Well, traditionally in Judaism you have a Yenta. You know what a Yenta is?

Chris Katulka: Oh yeah.

Steve Herzig: A Yenta really is a matchmaker. And marriage is so important. And they used to hire Yentas. If you've seen Fiddler on the Roof, they had a Yenta there.

Chris Katulka: I think Netflix as a whole Yenta special.

Steve Herzig: I'm not aware of that, but oh, Yenta has become a word that is associated with your mingling in my business. But usually it's a woman and she's paid to mingle. She's paid to do that, to go find the ideal mate for a particular person. And so really the traditional Judaism observant Jews, especially early on were you have to go prepare a place for the wife. Well, how do you even get a wife? Well, agreements are made at least a year ahead of time. Sometimes when they're children, even when they're children, their contract could be drawn up. But usually it would be for one year. The man goes back to prepare a place for his bride. He has to build a house, make sure he can handle a family, and usually the man lives with his family. The house is built off of the family compound. And again, that's in old days.

Chris Katulka: We're talking about in the days of Jesus, First Century.

Steve Herzig: Certainly in the First Century, yes., Today Western culture has dominated. And so there usually is no Yenta involved, although in ultra orthodox situations, there is still.

Chris Katulka: Still have them, yeah.

Steve Herzig: Still have a Yenta. Still getting the, especially if it's the rabbi’s son and who are they going to get for the rabbi’s son? Et cetera. But prepares the house. Technically they're married once a contract is drawn up. The only thing that has to happen is obviously the consummation of the marriage. Before that, the ceremony. So after a year is up, he's prepared a place, he goes to the bride, they proceed to the home, and they have a party, they have a bash, and it could last several days. There's a setup right on the place where they're getting married, where the couple would consummate the marriage. Well, today they certainly don't do that. They have honeymoons and all that. But the idea of a contract, a ketubah, a ketubah has all the responsibility for the husband to take care of his bride. Chris, that smacks against the culture we live in today.

But nonetheless, it is a tradition. And in fact, most couples who won't follow any of the ketubah will sign a ketubah. It's usually beautifully written. They'll frame it and hang it on their new home, which speaking of a new home, one of the things that happens in the ceremony is a chuppah. A chuppah is a beautiful gazebo-like structure. The couple stands outside of the chuppah when the parents walk the groom down and then the parents walk the bride down, they step into the chuppah and it's a new place. A man shall leave his wife and the two shall become one flesh, one family. And so this is the picture of two families, one with the daughter, one with the groom, and they form a new household. Leave and cleave is an important part of Judaism and Chris, it's an important part of Christianity as well. I've been to a number of Christian weddings, I'm sure you have too. And where the person who's speaking accentuates, talks about the leaving and cleaving and establishing the new household.

Chris Katulka: I hope that you've been enjoying hearing from Steve Herzig about the Jewish perspective of marriage, especially from a biblical worldview, a biblical perspective, and how much it influences the way that we understand marriage today biblically. But if you would like to receive more content from the Friends of Israel, this is a great opportunity for you to sign up to receive a one year free subscription of our award-winning Christian magazine, Israel My Glory. That's right. You could get a print edition or you can get our digital edition of Israel My Glory, that's 40 plus years of Israel My Glory content right at your fingertips, all by going to our website, foiradio.org. It's there that you can sign up and when you do, you'll receive a free one year subscription. That's six issues that either come to you by print in the mail, or digitally online, all for you, all for free. All amazing information and truth from God's Word about Israel and the Jewish people. Steve, how can our listeners get their hands on a copy of Israel My Glory?

Steve Conover: Just go to foiradio.org and there you can learn more. It's foiradio.org.

Chris Katulka: Can we go back to the First Century? So what you're saying is during that, what we would call engagement, that was actually them, the couple being married, where in our culture today if somebody's engaged, they're preparing their wedding together, they're going out and finding the venue and all the food.

Steve Herzig: I know you keep saying “they,” but isn't it usually the girl?

Chris Katulka: A hundred percent, yes. But he's usually sitting in the back or something like that. 

Steve Herzig: Exactly. 

Chris Katulka: He's present. 

Steve Herzig: He's saying, “yes, that's fine.” 

Chris Katulka: Present and accounted for. That's right. But the idea though is that you're preparing to get married. Where in first century Judaism in Jesus's day, when you think of someone like Mary and Joseph, when Mary was pregnant with Jesus because of God working, essentially what was going on there is they were actually married at that point. They weren't just engaged, they were married. Is that true? Is that what you're saying?

Steve Herzig: That is correct. They were married. The marriage wasn't consummated yet. He wanted to put her away privately. The Holy Spirit came upon Miriam, Mary, and in a way that's never happened before, a virgin conceived and had a son. That's because of God's program and plan. But they were married. He loved her. He wanted to do things privately until God revealed to him what happened to his wife.

Chris Katulka: But technically he was off preparing a place.

Steve Herzig: He was.

Chris Katulka: They were already married at that point, technically until the final consummation would've taken place under the chuppah. And that's a beautiful picture of the wedding ceremony. You had mentioned the ketubah. I had a ketubah at my wedding, and normally at a Christian wedding, you pour sand together to show your unity. One person pour, it's hard to remove it, or you have other components that you do that are special. During the marriage service, I decided to do a ketubah, which is the contract. You were talking about that beautiful ornate contract. Can you highlight the ketubah a little bit more and the meaningfulness of it In marriage?

Steve Herzig: The ketubah gives responsibility to the husband in every aspect to take care of all the needs, physical needs, financial needs, all the needs that the woman has. And should the marriage go bad, she will need, there needs to be a “get,” they have to go.. a “get" is a legal separation that a rabbinic council agrees to. In other words, there is great care that has to be given. If there's a divorce, the responsibility for the woman being divorced is now upon the man. And this council will rule. The ketubah is a protection for the woman.

Chris Katulka: You're watching, essentially, we go in private today to go get our marriage license and we sign the marriage license and we give it over to the state. In the ancient day, this was the contract for everyone to see because it's not just you that signs it and the wife that signs it, my groomsmen and my wife's bridesmaids signed the ketubah as well.

Steve Herzig: They witnessed it. 

Chris Katulka: They witnessed it happen. And so we do that in front of everybody. But it's beautiful. It's ornate and it's a contract to show the commitment that these two people are making. And even today in Israel, maybe we can highlight, in Israel, marriage is still governed by the rabbinical community in Israel. It's not technically a state run situation like in the United States, it's actually still governed by the rabbis.

Steve Herzig: They have to be an orthodox wedding in Israel unless you're a Gentile. And the way believing Jewish people get around that is they fly to Cyprus.

Chris Katulka: They go to Cyprus.

Steve Herzig: Because Israel recognizes any marriage. If you're married, they recognize it. But if you want to get married and you're Jewish in Israel, you have to have it in an orthodox setting, which is why it kind of puts the pressure on those who are Jewish who don't want it that way. And the other way around is those who are not religious, which is the majority of Jewish people, still have an orthodox wedding. I've attended an Israeli wedding where they weren't orthodox, but they, okay.

Chris Katulka: You pretend.

Steve Herzig: You go with what the flow is. That's the way you do it. That's what-

Chris Katulka: Yeah, in the land, you have to be Jewish too in order if you're going to marry a Gentile, when a Jewish person would fly to Cyprus was just a little puddle jump across to the island and they get married and then the license is approved in Israel. But in Israel, if you're going to get married, it has to be done in an orthodox setting.

Steve Herzig: It has to be in an orthodox setting.

Chris Katulka: That's so fascinating to me.

Steve Herzig: It is amazing.

Chris Katulka: Yeah. So let's talk about some of the symbolic traditions, Steve. One of the striking traditions mentioned is the bridegroom breaking a wine glass. You talk about this at the end of the ceremony. What does that mean? Maybe people have seen this before. They throw the glass, he steps on it.

Steve Herzig: It has become one of the most important parts of a Jewish wedding, regardless of how observant the person is. So at the conclusion of the wedding, we're right near the end. The officiant will take a glass. It's not always a glass, Chris, because there have been events where they had a glass and the guy couldn't smash it. You couldn't do it. Maybe you bought it at the dollar store. I don't know, but couldn't do it. So sometimes they use light bulbs, it makes a pop and a loud noise, but they're supposed to use a wine glass or glass of some sort.

Chris Katulka: That would happen to me. I'm confident.

Steve Herzig: It's wrapped in a cloth napkin. It's smashed down. Everybody says “Mazel Tov,” which means good luck. They're happy. It's wonderful. But the point is, as many pieces as that cup breaks into, it would be difficult if you had to glue it together. And so the idea is as hard as it would be to put this glass together again, that's how hard it should be to break this marriage up. Another reason, much more superstitious, is that the evil spirits hang around a wedding, a happy event, a blessed event, a holy event, and they're hanging around so the noise will shake them up and chase the spirits away.

Chris Katulka: There's a lot of superstition in Judaism as well.

Steve Herzig: Lots of superstition.

Chris Katulka: And I've heard it also can represent the destruction of the temple. Is that true as well?

Steve Herzig: It does. The multiple reasons, but primarily the one that's used the most is the desire that this marriage stick together. And Chris, during a time where divorce is so high, that's an important desire for the couple to have.

Chris Katulka: Steve, in our time remaining, let's talk about it from a Christian's perspective, from a believer. Your article concludes by drawing parallels between the Jewish marriage and the Christian view of the church as the bride of Christ. How do these wedding traditions that you highlight in your article really enhance our understanding of our relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ?

Steve Herzig: Well, Chris, we are married to Jesus Christ. We're part of the church. He's the groom. We're the bride. But he is, as John says, preparing a place for us. That kind of sense chills up my spine to think about Jesus right now is preparing a home for me and for you and for everyone in the church. And this is the waiting period as the bride yearned for her husband to come. There would be in Old Testament days, and during the time of Jesus in the first century, there'd be a procession where the groom would come, she would hear the groom and run towards him, and there would be this reunion and then a walk back to where the ceremony would take place. Jesus is waiting for - we're waiting for him, and at the proper time, we're going to hear a trumpet sound. And when that trumpet sounds in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, we will be with him in the clouds to meet him in the air. What a party that will be.

Chris Katulka: It's amazing to me too, to think of Jesus. He is the groom. And when I think about that ketubah, it's two flawed people when they get married, it's two flawed people who sign that contract. Two sinful people sign that contract in hopes of fulfilling it to take care of one another, to love one another, to be faithful to one another. But when Jesus is our groom, he is perfect. He's faithful. He will never leave us or forsake us. That picture of marriage once again, that we can constantly count on our groom who promised to come back again for us. I love that picture.

Steve Herzig: Well, Chris, we'll be perfected when that happens. 

Chris Katulka: A hundred percent. 

Steve Herzig: We'll be changed and we'll have a body that is sinless and there will be sin no more all because of what our groom has done for us.

Chris Katulka: And then we'll eat at the wedding feast, huh?

Steve Herzig: Enjoy!

Chris Katulka: That's right. Hey everybody, thanks so much, Steve, for being with us. If you have never received Israel My Glory before, this is your opportunity. If you go to israelmyglory.org/subscribe, there you can get a one year free subscription to Israel My Glory magazine, a publication. It's been around since 1942, teaching Christians about the Jewish people in Israel and what the Bible says about it. So if you're tired of looking at the media and seeing how they interpret what's going on in the Middle East, I encourage you to get Israel My Glory. It'll open your eyes to see what God says about the importance of Israel and the Jewish people, and when you subscribe, not only will you get Steve's article, but you'll get all the issues that are available, especially if you get our digital version. If you get the digital version, you'll get more than 45 years of Israel My Glory magazine right at your fingertips. I want to thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.

Steve Conover: Thank you for joining us for today's episode of The Friends of Israel Today, and thank you to Steve Herzig for being our guest.

Chris Katulka: That's right. Next week marks the one year anniversary of October 7th when Hamas attacked Israel killing more than 1200 Israelis and kidnapping nearly 250. We'll be honoring that, Steve and I, and talking about an experience that we actually had that is very important as we think about the one year anniversary of October 7th.

Steve Conover: We hope you'll join us then. Our mailing address is FOI Radio, PO Box 914 Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. Again, that's FOI Radio, PO Box 914, Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. Our web address is foiradio.org. Again, that's foiradio.org. You can call our listener line. That number is 888-343-6940. Once again, that's 888-343-6940. Our host and teacher is Chris Katulka. Today's program was produced by Tom Gallione, edited by Jeremy Strong, who also composed and performs our theme music. And I'm Steve Conover, executive producer. The Friends of Israel Today is a production of The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. Passion for God's Word. Compassion for God's Chosen People.