Chris Katulka: Thank you for joining us for The Friends of Israel Today. I'm Chris Katulka, your host and teacher. Hey, foiradio.org is where you want to be. We have nearly a decade of biblical content on the site with insightful teaching and various interview guests that focus all on Israel and the Jewish people from a biblical perspective. Again, be sure to visit us at foiradio.org. Now listen, I've got a question for you. If someone asked you, are we living in the last days, would you know how to give a biblical answer? Well, let me tell you, every year the Friends of Israel hosts our National Proclaim Conferences at key locations in the United States. This is a two-day prophecy conference aimed to help you understand the End Times and the Bible. This year we are learning all about living in the last days. Next month, May 16th and 17th, we'll begin our Proclaim Conference in Northern California in the beautiful Redding area.

We would love for you to come. I'll be there teaching along with our co-host Steve Conover and the executive director of the Friends of Israel as well, so you can learn more about this free conference and other locations as well by going to foiradio.org. 

Now listen, we're in the middle of a series right now where we're studying how to properly interpret the scriptures, biblical essentials, really, for being a friend of Israel and all of that is based on how we interpret the Bible. Last week we looked at the fact that one of the most important components of that is a literal interpretation of the scriptures, and today a very important part of interpreting the scriptures that can make someone a friend of Israel is by seeing interpretively a distinction between Israel and the church. You're going to want to stick around to hear more about the importance of seeing the Bible from that perspective. 

But first in the news, Honest Reporting’s, Salo Aizenberg, published a report showing that more than 70% of Gaza's casualties in its war with Israel are Army-aged men, stats that conflict with Hamas’ reporting, but match the Israel Defense Forces assessment. Aizenberg shared that Hamas has a long history of falsifying fatality data in past wars with the Jewish state.     

Here’s my take: I just want to make it clear that there is real suffering in Gaza right now. But I also believe Hamas falsifies the number of deaths of women and children in order to drum up global sympathy. Hey Hamas, let's end this war… release the hostages… you’re the cause of the suffering of the Palestinian people. 

Chris Katulka: So we're in the middle of a series on the way that we interpret the Bible and how it matters. One of the most influential theologians of the 20th century that shaped biblical interpretation was Dr. Charles Ryrie. He did something amazing concerning biblical interpretation. He boiled it down to three basic points. This becomes incredibly important. He actually called them the Sine qua non of dispensational interpretation. Sine qua non is a Latin phrase, meaning “without which not.” I know that sounds confusing, but it means something that's absolutely indispensable, or essential; a necessary condition or requirement. Sine qua non is something that is indispensable and these three points are indispensable and essential to interpreting the scriptures and here they are. Are you ready? The first, a literal interpretation of the scriptures. That's what we talked about last week. The importance of a plain reading of the scriptures because a plain and literal interpretation of the scriptures keeps us connected and grounded to God's Word and how he's speaking not only to his audience but to us, while a more allegorical interpretation can actually lead to bad theology like replacement theology, which believes that the church has replaced Israel, which leads to our next point of Ryrie's interpretive essentials: the distinction between Israel and the church. See, a literal interpretation of the scriptures gives way to the fact that God has a special covenant relationship with Israel that's eternal, which means that God cannot undo his unique relationship with his chosen people. There is a distinction, and today we're going to highlight the distinction between Israel and the church as we interpret the scriptures. And finally, the purpose of history from creation to the prophetic recreation, the Book of Revelation, to the very end of Revelation, when God makes all things new, the purpose of all of this is His glory, God's glory, and that we'll talk about next week. Now, if you didn't get a chance to listen to last week's program, you can visit us at foiradio.org and there you can connect with our ministry here at The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. You can listen to last week's program and actually all of our broadcasts that go back more than a decade, 10 years. Visit us atfoiradio.org.

Now, a literal interpretation of the Bible leads us to one unshakeable conclusion. God's relationship with Israel is not a metaphor, a placeholder or a temporary arrangement. It's actually a covenant. It's eternal, it's unconditional, and let me just say it's real. Through Dr. Ryrie’s writings like dispensationalism and the Ryrie Study Bible, Ryrie continues to shape how scholars and pastors interpret the scriptures, especially in relation to God's plan for Israel and the church. Now central to Ryrie’s system of biblical interpretation is the consistent distinction between Israel and the church. He firmly believed that this distinction is not only foundational to dispensational theology, but also critical for a proper and coherent understanding of the entire Bible. Ryrie's emphasis on this distinction has profoundly impacted modern evangelical scholarship. Reaffirming the theological importance of national ethnic Israel and fueled the growth, I believe this, of Christian Zionism.

Now, remember, you're a Christian Zionist if you simply believe that, according to the scriptures, the Jewish people have a right to their ancestral homeland, Israel. Now for Ryrie and The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, Israel refers to the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. National ethnic Israel, with whom God made specific unconditional covenants such as the Abrahamic Covenant, going back to Genesis chapter 15. The Davidic Covenant from 2 Samuel chapter seven and the New Covenant from Jeremiah chapter 31. The church, on the other hand, is a distinct body of believers, Jew and Gentile, formed at Pentecost and indwelt by the Holy Spirit from Acts 2. Ryrie taught that the church was a mystery not revealed in the Old Testament, as Paul says in Ephesians chapter three, and for that reason should not be conflated with Israel. This distinction actually safeguards the integrity of the biblical covenants.

If the church is seen as the new or spiritual Israel as many non-dispensational systems claim, then the promises made to national Israel are either spiritualized, reinterpreted, or altogether forfeited. Ryrie argued forcefully against this approach asserting that it undermines the faithfulness of God and leads to an inconsistent interpretation of the scriptures. Ryrie’s exactly right, Ryrie’s insistence on a literal interpretation of the Bible arises from his belief that God means what he says. Prophetic passages such as Isaiah's vision of a restored Jerusalem or Ezekiel's detailed temple must be understood according to the plain sense of the text unless compelling contextual reasons suggest otherwise. By this interpretation, promises made to Israel concerning a land, the land of Israel, a seed, the descendants, the Jewish people, and a blessing, the blessing that not only would God protect Israel, but that through Israel all the families of the earth will be blessed.

These are not just allegories or types that are fulfilled in the church, but real historical commitments that require a literal fulfillment. This interpretive approach leads to premillennialism, which is the belief that Jesus will return before a literal thousand year reign on earth, which you can find in Revelation chapter 20 in the first six verses, during which the promises to Israel will be fulfilled. See, Ryrie emphasized that the New Testament does not reinterpret the Old Testament in a way that erases these promises, rather it compliments and expands them while preserving their original meanings. For that reason, Ryrie's theology affirms the trustworthiness of God. If God promised a future restoration and blessing for Israel and does not fulfill it as he promised, then the character of God is called into question. By maintaining the Israel/church distinction, Ryrie highlights God's faithfulness in fulfilling all of his promises exactly as he gave them.

Charles Ryrie's clarity and systematic articulation of dispensational thought have significantly influenced generations of pastors, theologians and laypeople. His work served as a theological counterbalance to covenant theology and replacement theology, which often interpret Israel's role as fulfilled or absorbed into the church. Through institutions like Dallas Theological Seminary, where Ryrie taught for many years, his ideas helped shape biblically grounded optimism about the future of Israel. This influence is evident in the writings of later scholars such as Dr. John Walvoord, Dr. Dwight Pentecost, Dr. Renald Showers, and even Dr. David Jeremiah. One of the key implications of Ryrie's thought is the ongoing relevance of Israel in the redemptive plan of God. See, contrary to the notion that Israel's role ended in the first century, Ryrie taught that Israel still has a vital future role in God's kingdom program. This understanding has reawakened a sense of continuity between the testaments while preserving the uniqueness of the church age.

Ryrie's theology has also provided a robust framework for Christian Zionism. Again, the belief that the modern return of the Jews to the land of Israel is in accordance with what the Bible teaches and is a positive fulfillment of God's promises. While Ryrie was cautious in his claims about specific political developments avoiding sensationalism, his theological categories clearly allow for an appreciation of the modern state of Israel as a precursor or part of God's unfolding plan for national Israel. See, Christian Zionism is not merely a political movement for many evangelicals, it's a theological commitment rooted in the scriptures, the way that we interpret the scriptures. Ryrie's work gives it that foundation. By maintaining the Israel /church distinction, he opened the door for Christians to view the Jewish people with enduring significance, not just as relics of an Old Testament, but as recipients of a future divine promise. This perspective fosters Christian support for Israel and a concern for Jewish people, both of which are cornerstones of Christian Zionist belief and practice.

Beyond the scholarly and political arenas, Ryrie's theology has profound implications for pastoral ministry and missions as well. If Israel still matters in God's plan, then so do the Jewish people today. This leads to a renewed focus on the importance of evangelism around the world. A core component of Ryrie’s practical theology, just as the apostle Paul wrote, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” The distinction also clarifies the church's mission. The church is not called to take over Israel's role or inherit its national promises. Instead, the church is called to proclaim the gospel to all the nations, including Israel, while eagerly anticipating the day when all Israel will be saved.(Romans 11:26) See, this future restoration is not only a theological curiosity but a vital hope for the world. As Paul explains in Romans 11, Israel's future acceptance will actually bring greater blessing to the entire world. Ryrie’s framework helps believers see the unfolding drama of redemption as both present and future, anchored in history and yet still anticipating a fulfillment. Now listen, when we come back, we're going to continue our discussion about this very important interpretive tool that I believe will really help bring more clarity to the way that you read the Bible. The distinction between Israel and the church. Stick around.

Steve Conover: Chris, we've been blessed to add some new radio stations recently and I'm sure we have some who don't know much about The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry.

Chris Katulka: Yeah, Steve. For years The Friends of Israel has been a trusted source for those seeking to understand God's heart for the Jewish people. We're excited to invite new listeners into our growing community. We're offering a free digital download of our popular booklet, Whose Land is it Anyway? This booklet explores the historical, legal, and biblical claims to the land of Israel, providing clarity on a complex and often misunderstood topic.

Steve Conover: It's a great resource. If you've ever wondered about the ongoing struggle in the Middle East and want to be able to understand and defend why God has given the Holy Land to the Jewish people, this is the resource for you. We want to equip you to understand and support the Jewish people, not based on mere opinion, but based on God's trustworthy and unchanging Word. To get your free digital copy of Whose Land is it Anyway?, visit foiradio.org. That's foiradio.org.

Chris Katulka: Welcome back everyone. We're talking all about seeing the distinction between Israel and the church when we interpret and read the scriptures. We've been highlighting Dr. Charles Ryrie and his essentials, his sine qua non, as he calls them, of interpreting the Bible, which includes a literal interpretation, a distinction between Israel and the church, and next week, as we'll see, that all of it points to the glory of God. However, Ryrie's views have not gone without criticism. Covenant theologians have often accused Dispensationalists like Ryrie of dividing the Bible too sharply and creating a dual plan of salvation, one for Israel and another for the church. However, this can be strongly rejected as Ryrie has done so perfectly, consistently affirming that salvation, and Ryrie has always taught this and The Friends of Israel has always taught this, salvation has always been by grace through faith, regardless of a dispensational distinction. Now, others have critiqued Ryrie's approach as overly rigid or too dependent on a particular prophetic system, an eschatological system.

However, the staying power of his work suggests that many find it in a coherent, faithful, and scripture honoring approach to biblical interpretation. See, his defense of a literal interpretation of the Bible has also strengthened the confidence of Bible students who desire to take God's Word at face value. Look, Ryrie's legacy is secure in the annals of evangelical theology. His influence is not merely academic, it is deeply devotional and missional. By articulating a clear distinction between Israel and the church, Ryrie gave the church a fresh lens through which to view the scriptures not as a disconnected anthology, but as a unified narrative of God's glory unfolding across the ages and peoples. This distinction between Israel and the church preserves the unique roles and destinies of both, allowing believers to rejoice in their identity in Christ while honoring the covenantal promises still awaiting fulfillment for Israel. Ryrie’s thought continues to inspire Christians to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, to support the Jewish people and to anticipate the return of Christ with a hope rooted in the unfailing promises of God. In a time of increasing antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, and theological confusion about Israel's place in God's plan, Ryrie's voice is more relevant than ever. He reminds us that the God who chose Israel has not cast her off. You can just read that in Romans chapter 11:1. 

And the church, though distinct, is grafted into a story that spans generations and culminates in the glorious reign of the Messiah Jesus, both king of Israel and head of the church. Now, as we close, I want to read from the prophet Jeremiah. As Christians, we know the value of the church since we are in the church age today. However, it's my passion here at The Friends of Israel to show Christians the value of God's covenantal plan for Israel, and that's why I want you to hear from what the prophet Jeremiah wrote in Jeremiah 31:35-37. It says this, “This is what the Lord says: ‘He who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the seas so that its waves roar, the Lord Almighty is his name. Only if these decrees vanish from my sight, declares the Lord, will Israel ever cease being a nation before me. This is what the Lord says. Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out, I will reject the descendants of Israel because of all that they have done declares the Lord.’”

Did you hear that? How can you be sure God is through with Israel? Well, the prophet Jeremiah says it perfectly, creation must be destroyed. So it's important to remember the second point of Ryrie’s interpretive essentials, when we're talking about interpreting the Bible, God still has a plan both for the church and for Israel.

Steve Conover: Now, Apples of Gold, a dramatic reading from the life and ministry of Holocaust survivor, Zvi Kalisher.

Mike Kellogg: Every year my home is completely full on Passover evening. Before the readings, I gave a short testimony about the meaning of Passover. My children played music, and everyone sang. The feast lasted until 1:00 a.m., and many of my neighbors, after hearing the music and singing, stood outside listening also. The unbelievers thought they were going to see and hear things completely different from their own celebration, but they were surprised to learn we believe in the same God and, what’s more, we follow the real Passover Lamb, Jesus. Leviticus 17:11 clearly depicts the atonement: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls.” The only difference between their feast and mine was that I put meaning into it, emphasizing the Pesach Lamb, which is the real atonement. I read from the Bible and told them our celebration is all about the Pesach Lamb and His resurrection. This was very hard for them to understand. I read to them only from the Old Testament, such as Job 19:25: “For I know that my Redeemer lives, and He shall stand at last on the earth.” This was the first time they had heard about the resurrection.

Then someone asked the age-old question, “How can we know this when no one has ever come back from the grave?” I replied, “The Lord rose from the grave.” “No,” the questioner said, “we do not want to hear that example. We want to hear from the Bible, but not from the New Testament.” So I quoted the prophet Daniel, who wrote, “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt” (Dan. 12:2). I told them, “God does not want men to heap vengeance upon others as you have done to me, because of my faith in Messiah Jesus. The Bible says ‘You shall love your

neighbor as yourself’ (Lev. 19:18).” “We believe this,” he said, “but there is nothing like this in the New Testament.”

This provided an opportunity for me to show them the same words in the New Testament. I told them, “The choice is yours to make. The Lord has given us a free choice. You can have the Lord’s mercy. You can have real atonement through His death and resurrection.” They did not understand how God could be born, die, and come again. I told them the Bible speaks of all these things. Micah 5:2 and Isaiah 9:6 foretold His birth; Isaiah 53 foretold His suffering; Zechariah 12:10 foretold His death; King David prophesied of His resurrection in Psalm 16:10; and Daniel 7:13 predicts His Second Coming. I showed them all of these things without once opening the New Testament, because God has given us a very clear picture of the Lord, our Savior and our Passover, in the Old Testament.

I then told my visitors, “You can see the way we have celebrated the Passover today is not taken from our imaginations, but from the Holy Bible, the same Bible you read. The Lord has promised He will come again, and He has told us to watch and pray so we will be ready for His coming. And His promises are not like our promises. In Him we can be sure.”

By the end of the evening, some of my guests had changed their minds about me, and we all sang together the popular song of the Passover taken from Psalm 118:21–29. It was truly a blessed Passover feast.

Chris Katulka: Thanks for joining us for today's episode of The Friends of Israel Today. Next week we're going to be wrapping up our series where we're going to be looking at how we should understand God in light of all of these interpretive tools that we've been learning, and ultimately, what's the purpose of history? Well, it's to give glory to God. We want you to join us next week. Come on back. Now, don't forget to get your free digital download of our popular booklet, Whose Land is it Anyway? on our website foiradio.org. Again, that's foiradio.org. Now our mailing address is FOI Radio PO Box 914, Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. Again, that's FOI Radio PO Box 914, Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. Our listener line is 888-343-6940. Again, that's 888-343-6940. Today's program was engineered by Bob Beebe and Aiden Williamson. Edited by Jeremy Strong, who also composed and performs our theme music. Lisa Small is our executive producer. Sarah Fern is our associate producer. Mike Kellogg read Apples of Gold. And I'm Chris Katulka, your host and teacher. The Friends of Israel Today is a production of The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. Passion for God's Word. Compassion for God's Chosen People.