Steve Conover: Thank you for joining us for The Friends of Israel Today. I'm Steve Conover, executive director of The Friends of Israel, and with me is our host and teacher, Chris Katulka.

Chris Katulka: Hey Steve. We have an amazing award-winning Christian magazine called Israel My Glory. It's been in publication since 1942, teaching Christians about the biblical value of Israel and the Jewish people. Now, later on we want to share with you how you can get a one year free subscription to Israel My Glory. But before we do that, we're going to have Dr. Jim Showers on to talk about his most recent issue in Israel My Glory called Whose Side Is God On? We're looking at the rise of antisemitism that's going on all around the world, and instead of starting with the culture, Dr. Showers is actually going to start with the church and he's going to ask some great questions like, how faithfully are pastors teaching what God has said about Israel and the Jewish people from the Bible? And how many Christians are really standing up for Israel and the Jewish people in the culture that we live in today? So you're not going to want to miss this interview with Dr. Jim Showers as he talks about Whose Side Is God On?

Steve Conover: But first in the news, Humans of New York, the widely followed photojournalism project with nearly 30 million social media followers, recently featured members of Neturei Karta—a fringe Orthodox Jewish group known for its outspoken anti-Israel stance. Accompanying the photo, the post’s author declared support for Palestinians and “for the Jewish people… worldwide who are embarrassed and appalled by what is being done in their name.”

Chris Katulka: Well, here's my take. Steve, if you've seen this photo, it's a picture of what looks like Orthodox Jewish individuals, but they're holding signs that are pro-Palestinians. But really the Humans of New York misrepresented the Jewish community by platforming Neturei Karta—a fringe group widely rejected by mainstream Judaism—as if they speak for all Jewish people. In fact, one commenter on the post captured the concern well. He wrote this, “Wow, this is embarrassing tokenization. This is a tiny, extreme, and racist sect of Judaism that is rejected by nearly every Jew in America.” In an age of viral content and curated narratives, I have to tell you something, it’s more important than ever to think critically, fact-check, and seek out the broader truth behind what you see and read online about Israel and the Jewish people.

Chris Katulka: Now today is all about our most recent issue of Israel My Glory titled The Great Awakening of Christian Zionism. And today we have Dr. Jim Showers, the President and CEO of The Friends of Israel with us. He's going to be talking about his article, Whose Side Is God On? Now listen, we're going to share with you in a moment how you can get a one year free subscription to our award-winning Christian magazine, Israel My Glory. But before we get there, let's talk with Jim. Jim, great to see you. 

Jim Showers: It's good to be here. Chris, 

Chris Katulka: Jim, you wrote an excellent article Whose Side Is God On?, and it's all about Christian Zionism and really the place of how the church engaged with Israel after October 7th. But I want to ask you a question. What is a Zionist? Because you actually call God a Zionist here, which could be controversial for some people when they hear that, but what is a Zionist?

Jim Showers: Well, a simple definition of what a Zionist is, is the right of the Jewish people to live in a promised land, the land of Israel, as a sovereign nation. There are some people who are Zionists historically, believe it's the ancient homeland, the Jewish people that they didn't leave voluntarily, they were forced out in exile and therefore they have a right to return and be a nation again. There are others that see it as a moral argument, Chris, the idea that it's the right thing to do for the Jewish people. Quite honestly, if you look at Jewish history and the scattering of the Jewish people, wherever they've ended up in the world, sooner or later they find themselves being persecuted and the nations they live in don't defend them.

But there's another justification, it's the one we come with and that is, it's biblical. It comes out of the Bible and the covenants that God made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants, the Jewish people, that God promised the land to them and therefore they have a biblical right to be there. It is ordained by God and so that we call Christian Zionism. The belief that it's ordained by God is not Christian Zionism, that's just out of the Bible. But as Christians, we are Zionists because we believe what the Bible says and therefore the Bible is our justification for the support of the return of the Jewish people. And that's been critically important in these days. Coming out of World War II and the Holocaust, the world finally realized and believed that the Jewish people needed to have their own nation where they could defend themselves because that is the one thing they lacked when they were scattered, a nation where they could fight for themselves rather than relying on others who would fail.

Chris Katulka: So when you say someone's a Zionist, you're simply saying that they believe that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancestral ancient homeland that goes back thousands of years to the biblical times.

Jim Showers: Exactly.

Chris Katulka: And this is important because I've even heard college students on college campuses during protests curse the idea of Zionism and then when somebody asks them, “Well, do you believe that Jewish people have a right to live over there and have their own homeland?” “Oh, yeah.” Well, they go, “Well, you're a Zionist.” And it would hit them the reality that Zionism is not a curse word, it's just the belief that Jewish people have a right to live in their ancient homeland. Many churches though tended to hesitate to take a stance on Israel. That's something that you're writing about in your article, but what do you think the primary reason for this reluctance was?

Jim Showers: I look at two reasons primarily. One is systemic. Our educational system here in America was really modeled after the European system of education. And so when it comes to Bible education, seminary, Bible college, we followed the systematic theology of Europe, the ten categories. You know this well, you've been to seminary. Theology proper, theology of God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, soteriology, the doctrine of the church, the doctrine of salvation. What was missing from that, because the European church was primarily replacement theology, they didn't see a future for Israel, was the doctrine of Israel. And so we build our whole, even in our schools that hold to the same biblical truth that you and I hold to, when they study theology, there isn't a separate category for Israel. And so Israel gets deemphasized. It comes up in eschatology, it comes up in other areas, but men and women that are going into ministry aren't being trained in the importance of Israel and the key role that Israel plays in God's redemptive plan. In fact, the redemptive plan gets boiled down to just salvation and overlooks the rest of the plan of redemption to restore God's kingdom here on earth. And it leads to a lot of confusion and a lack of understanding of the importance. So a lot of pastors go into the pulpit on Sunday with just really not having been properly trained about Israel and Israel's important role, not just in the past but in the present and in the future. The second reason I think that is true is because reformed theology has become so popular here in America and around the world, and most of the major authors who are really the influencers of a lot of our churches today don't see a future for Israel. They believe that Israel's been replaced by the church. And so if you're reading books like that, there's going to be no endorsement or discussion of why Israel exists, why Israel is important. They tend to leave it alone or if they do say anything, it's… Let me give you an example, Chris. I was listening to a very popular reformed leader who writes lots of books and he was giving a message and he was talking about the covenant promises of God. And he made this clear and distinct statement that the promise of land in the Old Testament was never a promise about a physical piece of real estate, but it was a spiritual promise. And so no ethnic group today has a right to claim the land of Israel. Well, that's contrary to what the Bible teaches.

Chris Katulka: The whole Bible, Old Testament and the New Testament.

Jim Showers: Yeah. But this is where they go oftentimes as they spiritualize, that the physical promises become very spiritual in nature. And so if that's the input you're getting as a pastor or Bible teacher, leader, you're not going to recognize why Israel's important and why you should be teaching about Israel.

Chris Katulka: It's interesting too, because when Russia attacked Ukraine, there was no equivalency, at least for us over here in the West. We understood what was going on and nobody was raising any moral equivalency. What Russia had done was wrong in attacking Ukraine. But it is interesting that in the church when Hamas attacked Israel, all of a sudden there was a moral equivalency that was going on. And you actually argue that anti-Zionism among Christians, actually you have mentioned this earlier, can often stem from replacement theology or ignorance. So what practical steps Jim can churches take to remedy this, to correct this misunderstanding?

Jim Showers: Well, I think the answers go back to the Word of God. To turn back to the Bible and to understand what the Bible teaches about Israel. We have some great resources here. Chris, you've authored a wonderful book, Israel Always, that we sell that is a great resource. Elwood McQuaid’s, It Is No Dream, that he wrote about Israel and the modern birth of Israel. A couple of great resources. There are resources out there, but I really think getting back to teaching and preaching about Israel and encouraging Christians to understand why Israel makes a difference, but that starts with the pastors understanding that, right? And we have some wonderful programs here, mobilization programs that really have been developed under your leadership that can help with that. And I think encouraging people to get involved in things like that, beginning with pastors jumping in. We have free education, FOI Equip, and people could get that through our website at foi.org and to get in there and begin studying.

And then if they want to go further, they can begin learning how to do Jewish ministry through Bridges and right on down the line into getting them actually involved in doing Jewish ministry. Wonderful resources that can teach about why Israel's important, why we should care about Israel. But listen, the whole issue of moral equivalency that we saw rise up in the church after October 7th was so troubling because to take a position of moral equivalency is to say God supports what Hamas is doing as much as God supports what Israel is doing. And you can't have it both ways. Hamas is calling for the complete destruction and annihilation of the Jewish people. But God has a future for Israel. And in the Bible we read various accounts of how those who hate Israel and want to see Israel destroyed aren't just against Israel, they're against God. So why would God endorse a group like Hamas who's against him? That's what moral equivalency effectively does. It gives endorsement to those who are really the enemies of God.

Chris Katulka: You actually even mentioned in the article that younger evangelicals are less supportive of Israel due to a lack of teaching, as you've been talking about. Again, that concept, what can Christian leaders, what can we be doing to reintroduce biblical Zionism in a way that resonates with the next generation, to bring along that next generation to see the value of Israel and the Jewish people in the Scriptures?

Jim Showers: Well, we know that the younger generations are losing their understanding of Israel. Surveys tell us they're less supportive of Israel. It's not that they're more against Israel than older generations. It's about the same percentage. But those that stand with Israel, those that support Israel and Israel's right, is less than the older generations. That is a symptom of not teaching about Israel and explaining Israel. I grew up in a day when it was common to go into an evangelical Bible preaching church and hear a message on Israel and the future of Israel, and that's just seldom done anymore. And so I think certainly preaching biblical truth, teaching about Israel is vitally important. But on top of that, helping people understand the importance of us standing with Israel, right? We came into existence because a group of believers took seriously God's instruction, his promise to Abraham that he would bless those who bless you and curse him and curses you.

That's what God wants us to do, is to bless Israel. And so they began this ministry, and I think our role today is to carry on that mission that they started. And we do that in part by standing with Israel. Every Christian can stand with Israel. The first thing you can do is pray. Do you know the one thing in the Old Testament that God tells us to pray for is the peace of Jerusalem. Most people today would say they want world peace, right? God doesn't say pray for world peace, he says, pray for the peace of Jerusalem. But you know, when you pray for the peace of Jerusalem, you're really praying that God will send the Messiah who will bring peace for the whole world. So you really are praying for worldwide peace. And so first of all, anybody can pray for the peace of Israel, but you can also help Israel.

And there are various ways to do that. We have a relief fund, or even just giving to a ministry like the Friends of Israel is one way of stepping beyond prayer to do something tangible, something physical, something that can make a huge difference to help people. There are great humanitarian needs in Israel and through our relief funds, we're helping with those needs. And then another thing if you want to go further is to get involved as a volunteer. We have opportunities to volunteer in Israel through ORIGINS and through Hesed. We now have a volunteer team, people who are serving around not just the US, but literally around the world and being involved in Jewish ministry. So there are many things people can do to get involved in helping Israel.

Chris Katulka: Jim, you said something. I said it was controversial because the word “Zionist” does carry with it controversy, especially when you go into college campuses and things like that. I'm not scared of it because I am a Christian Zionist, and I know you are too, but you state that God is a Zionist and that Christians should be as well. How would you respond to those who claim that Zionism is a political ideology rather than a biblical mandate?

Jim Showers: That's a great question. First of all, Zionism is a mandate because God made it a mandate. Do you know who the first Zionist was? God.

Chris Katulka: God, right? 

Jim Showers: Right. Nowhere in the Scripture has he ever canceled that. Nowhere has he said, I take away the promise to Israel and give it to someone else or just hold it and not give it to anyone. So we are called to stand with Israel. It is not political. You know as well as I do, in the Old Testament, the law was everything. It was religious. It was political. It was designed to govern all the affairs of life and men. And so you can't really separate it. Certainly Zionism carries over into the political world because we want our government to support Israel and the United States of all nations has been the most supportive, even though it has failed Israel at times in support. There is no nation that stood stronger with Israel than the United States.

I really believe that was part of God's purpose in raising up the United States on Judeo-Christian values to be a Christian nation because when the day came that Israel came into existence, the US was there as a big brother to help and continues to be. But more than anything else, our Zionism doesn't come out of our politics. It comes out of our faith and our reading of the Word of God, where God clearly says that he loves Israel and that the land of Israel is an everlasting promise that he's given to Israel. Now, he conditioned it on whether they could live in the land and enjoy it on their obedience, but he never said, I will cancel this promise. I'll take this away. I will give it to another if you don't obey. He simply said, there is judgment coming for disobedience. But he also promised, I love this about God. He also promised that one day he would return the Jewish people to land. So when I think about what pastors can do to start educating their people on Israel, they can turn to the Scriptures. They can go to places like Ezekiel 37, the Valley of Dry Bones, which is a description of the return of the Jewish people, land and the rebirth of modern Israel. You can look at passages like Ezekiel. Ezekiel 12 talks about the future restoration of the Jewish people and how that will be the moment when Messiah comes, when they look upon their Messiah as the one they pierced. And so there are many, many passages of Scripture that support Zionism and the return of the Jewish people to land. And God says, “Once I return them to the land, I'm going to plant them there. They'll never be plucked up again. They'll never be taken out of the land again.” We are fortunate to live in a day where we're watching right before our eyes, we're seeing God's promises being fulfilled. And Israel is the biggest one in my mind that we're watching today. The formation of Israel, just as God said, he would bring those bones together, put flesh and skin on them, and they would begin functioning. We're seeing that in Israel today.

Chris Katulka: Jim, it reminds me, because Zionism is a political movement, and like you said, for us it is a biblical movement. And when in the last 10 years of the 18th century or 19th century, you have Theodor Herzl rise up and he's trying to create the political Zionistic movement. But then God in his kindness brings along an Anglican chaplain, Reverend William Heckler who meets Theodor Herzl as he's on this political endeavor to remind him as a chaplain who read God's Word, he says, “You're not just on a political mission, this is a biblical mandate that you're on.” And they became friends. And I just think about that connection and how God brought it together. Yes, Theodor Herzl was driving this political movement that would take place as a secular, but God brings along just at the right time, William Heckler to say, no, no, no, it's bigger than that. You're on a biblical mission right now.

Jim Showers: Exactly, exactly. And I love how God used not just the Jewish community to bring Israel back into existence, but even before Jewish Zionism got off the ground with Herzl, there were Christian Zionists who were already in motion working toward that end. And Heckler is one of the great examples of that. In Israel today, there's a Friends of Zion museum that walks people through some of the significant people throughout recent history that were very instrumental in the formation of modern Israel. It's a great story that most Christians don't know anything about.

Chris Katulka: The heritage connected to Christian Zionism. Alright, in the brief moments that we have left together, Jim, if a pastor or church leader is hesitant to speak out in support of Israel due to concerns maybe about alienating their congregation, which I think is a big one, what advice would you give them?

Jim Showers: Well, the first thought comes to mind, Chris, is we should fear God not men. And so we ought to be preaching always God's truth. And God stands up…Israel is the apple of his eye, which means that's where his pupil is always focused on Israel. God loves Israel with everlasting love. So I would say to pastors, preach compassionately about Israel. Try to be understanding of those that don't see it your way, but don't give up that ground just because you're afraid they're going to oppose anything. You should be able to take them into Scripture and teach them what the Bible says. So some of the passages we talked about are great starting points. But even going back and beginning to teach on the covenants that God made and explaining those. Remind people, and I think even as leaders in ministry, you have to remind ourselves of sometimes, our Savior is Jewish. He was born into a Jewish family. He grew up in a Jewish culture, Jewish society.

He obeyed the law. He was the model of what Jewish people should be. And to not appreciate and understand the Jewish people and why they're important is to ignore that fact. And that's been one of the problems as to why so many in Christendom today don't see why Israel is important. Listen, Chris, let me just close with this thought. We have in the Psalms a very important Psalm, Psalm 83. Psalm 83 is the psalmist Asaph. He's crying out to God and he's saying basically to God, there's some people around us that hate you. They're crying out against you, and by the way, they hate us too. Right?

And so he calls on God to intervene, to rescue them. Not for their sake, but for his name's sake. We lose the understanding in church today that God's name's at stake here. You can't understate the importance of this whole issue. God’s name's at stake and the people that hate Israel hate Israel's God, and you have to pick sides. You can either be on the side of Israel and the side of God, or you can be against Israel and against Israel's God. That's not a hard decision for me, and it's supported by what I read in the Scriptures. So I would encourage anybody who is in a position to teach others to teach about Israel, to value Israel because God values Israel and we are to value anything that God values. If God loves Israel with an everlasting love, that's what I should be doing and I do.

Chris Katulka: Jim, thank you very much. This has been great. 

Jim Showers: Thank you, Chris. 

Chris Katulka:Hey, you've been listening to Dr. Jim Showers. He's the CEO and President of The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. Now, I already told you earlier that if you stuck around, I would share with you how you can get a one year free subscription to our award-winning Christian magazine, Israel My Glory. Maybe you're just dipping your toe into this idea of Christian Zionism for the first time, or maybe you've been supporting Israel your whole life. It really doesn't matter. This is a great magazine for you to see how God biblically is working through Israel and the Jewish people. So if you want to read about Jim's article, Whose Side Is God On?, or others from The Great Awakening of Christian Zionism, our most recent issue of Israel My Glory, I want you to go to israelmyglory.org/subscribe. And there you can subscribe and you can get a one year free subscription to our award-winning Christian magazine, Israel My Glory. And you can even get a digital subscription, which will give you more than 40 years of Israel My Glory content right at your fingertips. Be sure to subscribe. israelmyglory.org/subscribe.

Steve Conover: Thanks for joining us for today's episode of The Friends of Israel Today, and thank you to Dr. Jim Showers for being our guest. Chris, where are we headed next week?

Chris Katulka: Yeah, we're going to start a two-part series on something very fascinating. We're going to be going to the book of Leviticus, and we're going to be looking at the call that God gave the priestly line. They were to be the ones who teach about the things that are holy and common and about the things that are clean and unclean. I call it the priestly matrix because this is exactly what Israel needed, the guidance from the priests on how to maintain a relationship with a holy God. A very important part of the Bible.

Steve Conover: And as we close, our web address once again is foiradio.org. That’s foiradio.org. Our mailing address is FOI Radio PO Box 914, Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. Again, that's FOI Radio PO Box 914, Bellmawr, New Jersey 08099. You can call our listener line. That number is 888-343-6940. Once again, that's 888-343-6940. Today's program was engineered by Bob Beebe. Edited by Jeremy Strong, who also composed and performs our theme music. Lisa Small is our executive producer. Sarah Fern is our associate producer. Chris Katulka is our host and teacher. And I'm Steve Conover, executive director of The Friends of Israel. The Friends of Israel Today is a production of The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. Passion for God's Word. Compassion for God's Chosen People.